Tuesday, January 27, 2009

Theists imagine..

..... that there are preprogrammed answers in their books.
Hence the standard replies. Ask any question and the answer is, "The Bible says..", or "The Scriptures say..."



I'm not sure why this would be any kind of adequate answer to an atheist query.



I don't think that they see the question in that light, theism versus atheism, and they just want to fend off every expression of 'fading' to 'differing' to 'non' to 'anti' belief in their solution to the mystery of life and the universe.



Quote from Bible.org. "The Bible is, through and through, a historical revelation. It is the account of God’s activity in history."



"Through and through"? Whoever wrote this is sincerely deluded and is prescribing the notion that science is without merit, any merit at all.

Of course there's nothing stopping them from softening their position and 'allowing' actual pre-history to have happened, 'allowing' evolution to have happened and allowing the possiblity of 'The Big Bang' to have happened.

I just think that it's being very dishonest to imagine both 'what really happened' and 'what the Bible says happened' as being equally valid!

Conversely, I think that they are being very dishonest imagining that both what really happened(Biblically) and what 'science' says happened can possibly have 'equal' truth.

The booklets were written long before science could refute the literal, Biblical 'truth' and it's a matter of historical fact that theists DID try to hide the facts from the public.

I'm sure that the public, such as it was hundreds of years ago, what with the state of 'education', wouldn't have been able to handle the truth anyways, but we still get the 'intellectual argument' that it was known since before Jesus that the World was a sphere.

Judging by the state of education today versus what the average person believes, it doesn't take a vivid imagination to guess that the priests and pastors of yore were filling their locals' heads with FEAR to keep them in line.

Likely, since the priests and pastors of the time were a source of news back then, it would have been the equivalent to Fox News today.

"We need the king to protect us from rogue armies, he is appointed by God.", and such.

I'm kind of leery about having GOD appoint people to look after me, and I'll continue to be leery of this idea until God or Jesus or Allah or some 'magical' Mullah, whatever, let's call 'him' Maitreya, shows up on the Larry King Live show and starts performing miracles.

Even then, I'll 'grant' miracles, but I'll still be a little leery of whether 'goodness' is involved, never mind Godliness or Evil.

10 comments:

mac said...

"I'm kind of leery about having GOD appoint people to look after me, and I'll continue to be leery of this idea until God or Jesus or Allah or some 'magical' Mullah, whatever, let's call 'him' Maitreya, shows up on the Larry King Live show and starts performing miracles."

---------------

Ah, my friend, that is my point exactly. I agree.
Even then- I don't think I'll be bowing to such a being as he is written about. He's a sociapath !

Remember his wrath? How many people has he smited?
Yeah, that's a praise worthy guy.

oneblood said...

"...it doesn't take a vivid imagination to guess that the priests and pastors of yore were filling their locals' heads with FEAR to keep them in line."

-----------------------------------

I still don't understand the need to say that the rulers: priests, kings, etc. wielded religion as if they didn't believe it.

I'm really not trying to be nitpicky pboy, but saying that religion is a paradigm of fear is different than saying that the people in authority by said religion understood that it was inherently fearful and used it to their advantage.

oneblood said...

Meaning that yes of course there were those types of people but I don't think an extrapolation of that can be made to encompass all of them.

pboyfloyd said...

Yea mac, 'THE WRATH!'

I think that that's a symptom of humans wielding too much power and finding that they LIKE it. It's probably like money, never enough.

Oneblood, you say, "..of course there were those types of people..."

We're ALL 'those types of people' given the right circumstances.

Listen to a young mother in a store, marching her two or three year old around. She 'doesn't have 'time' for this!
She's exasperated and she is teaching her child to be exasperated too. Kids learn everything.

The drip, drip, drip of 'how to control those under your command or how to deal with the 'errant' will change everyone.

The one in charge will come to believe that their underlings WILL try to get away with as much as they can.

"Give them an inch and they'll take a mile!"

This is even a lesson that one can learn from the Bible. Those letters to the churches by Paul were chastising them for not 'toeing the line'.

Plus, like in the Bible, there is pressure from above. There's 'always' someone there who is 'checking' YOU to make sure that YOU'RE not 'taking that mile, when given an inch'.

It's a system of authority, after all, isn't it?

Ever read the story about why the scullery maid beat her little dog? The moral is that 'shit' runs downhill.

Stacy said...

I just think that it's being very dishonest to imagine both 'what really happened' and 'what the Bible says happened' as being equally valid!

This is a timely post.

A good friend of mine came over last night who goes to a non-denominational church and I opened my big mouth and said "Oh, you know that's code for 'Bible Church' right?" and she said "No, no it isn't".

This is a SMART lady!She's been going to bible study lately though.

(I try not to talk about religion with people because it generally puts strain on friendships.)

...skip ahead some ...


Without going into every detail of the conversation, I can tell you that she is an unusual case.

She believes in science (evolution, age of the earth, etc...) and also in the creation story.

I don't know how she can believe in a 4.5 billion year old earth and a 6000 year old earth at the same time - but she does. And I honestly believe that she is being truthful.

Anyway, it was an interesting conversation and I still like and respect her.

pboyfloyd said...

Stacy, that WAS kinda a coincidence. Cool.

I'd have liked to hear more details. Is it possible that the lady is pleasing a new guy, or her guy found God to replace an addiction of some kind?

I understand if you don't want to get into speculation, you might feel it not a thing to share.

Stacy said...

OK ... Her son and my son became friends about 4 years ago. Both of our families moved here to our neighborhood within a couple weeks of each other. Us from CA. and them from MI. So I knew that she wasn't tainted with the Southern Baptist brainwashing.

Anyway ... I love her son nearly as much as my own. He's a great kid. - sidenote, the boys came in and listened to our conversation for a few minutes and her son spoke up and said: "Well, I believe in science". :-)

She did NOT have a problem with that!!

She's married (I like her husband too).

She and her husband voted for Obama.... though she said that if his parents were to find that out -they would have a fit. We have cocktails and watch football together often.

She notices religious encroachment in our schools and says "They would never get aeay with that up north!"

I looked at the website for their church and it says:

We try not to be dogmatic about matters on which believers hold divergent views. Our core beliefs are centered in Christ and His message as supported by Scripture. More obscure doctrine, as well as controversial issues about which the Bible is silent, are left to believers to sort out on their own. On these issues we take no official/dogmatic position.

Basically, I got the feeling from her that their church is sort of like a Unitarian Universalism -but they push being saved by jesus a little more.

I really just think that she can "compartmentalize".

pboyfloyd said...

Hmmm.. maybe mom and dad-in law insisted that 'junior' marry a 'good' Christian.

"Let us pray(hehe), that G,pa and G,ma don't get their claws into the little guy!"

Anyways, your friend sounds like she's found a compromise that she is comfortable with.

Sort of 'nothing wrong with Jesus and nothing wrong with science either'.

Stacy said...

I just don't understand the 'bible study' thing.

I should go with her and start asking some questions - if you get my drift?

pboyfloyd said...

Indeed.